That to me makes no sense. @kuuzo: Get out of here with ur bs, pralaya is a N52 character ur retcon scans are referring to someone else. The power to manipulate and induce death. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/marvel-vs-dc-and-umineko-and-hadou-gods-strongest-1936520/?page=2#js-message-25804190. Another distinction you can't tell has been added to the list. Omnipotence: Being All-Powerful and possesses unlimited almighty power above all in every sense and aspect. He has been named newspaper columnist of the year and is author of the award-winning audiobook Who Do I Think I Am. Since she created the multiverse what would be her relationship to the Endless? data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAKAAAAB4CAYAAAB1ovlvAAAAAXNSR0IArs4c6QAAAnpJREFUeF7t17Fpw1AARdFv7WJN4EVcawrPJZeeR3u4kiGQkCYJaXxBHLUSPHT/AaHTvu . Lucifers creation is outside what his father made. FFINALIDAD Y ALCANCE DE LAS ACCIONES LOS REMEDIOS CONTRACTUALES" Enrique Barros Bouse" 1. If my fav character was said/shown multiple times in canon to operate below others, I have no problem knowing that fact and would accept it. 211. The Presence is the creator of the Council of Eternity [28], a circle of ancient wizards based out of the Rock of Eternity that oversaw and defended the ancient world, judging the guilty for their sins until they were betrayed and wiped out by Teth-Adam. While in the past the Presence has mostly remained unseen and unheard of in the main DCU, even to most of the characters connected directly to it, in the New 52 it has manifested a few times to the Phantom Stranger as a Scottish Terrier of different colors, which it has chosen to do because it amuses it. his mind was even put in hell by a minor demon named scoria. Many characters have travelled to there are on the crossovers are canon according to Morrison. It doesn't take any mental gymnastics to figure out that the description of Pralaya as "God's unconscious" means what it means at first glance and along with the later statements about this character, but it seems we're dealing with an exceptional case. He is first seen in More Fun Comics #52 that bloomed in the year 1940. No you can't, since he was only referring to the drawn part of the map. Which debunks the notion of pralaya being referenced in older comics when she did not exist then. U can fool someone like broGoku, or hellsing who are ignorant to DC and favor ur headcanon so theyll take anything even retcon scans to put the presence at the top or say some shit like the presence is left ambiguous on purpose lol he was defeated multiple times, his mind was even put in hell by a minor demon named scoria. One day, I dream. That holds all things you have the destinys realm which is the peak of existence. Understanding this, and yet it is necessary to have the faculties to understand in the first place, the Presence not being directly portray in this storyline make sense, given it is Pralaya who embodies this aspect of "God's Unconscious". Ma. MFWolfe: Jun 28 2015, 12:19 PM. The Presence vs Yog-Sothoth. Show some love by finding it helpful. Don't try to portray yourself as more foolish than you really are this time. 2022 GAMESPOT, A FANDOM COMPANY. Star Trek : Un nouveau monde trange ( Star Trek: Strange New Worlds) est une srie tlvise amricaine de science-fiction cre par Akiva Goldsman, Alex Kurtzman et Jenny Lumet. Confusing, isn' it? Did not me take me long to come up with this small debunk part setting the tone for what is to come for both of your posts, which you have deliberately chosen to continue to sink into the abyss. Product Type Clear All Product Types ; Books (90,340) Magazines & Periodicals (393) Comics (12) Sheet Music (14) Art, Prints & Posters (46) . Where is the burden of proof on me? Menu. Here is Grant Morrison, another writer of DC's view on it: Grant Morrison says that in his cosmology The Source is the same entity as his God (who is not the Presence, it's a being called Monitor Mind or Overvoid). HOSTS. So if you want to argue that it's not him literally up there, who is it? This seems to make sense, but it is still somewhat confusing. 4th scan: Start doubting that this "person" has ever read a comics, when actually both scans from John Ostrander's the Spectre introduce the idea has aspects fitting the perception/view of Gods that the interlocutor holds, beside the ones to fit within the context of a particular belief system . You could say that he. If I were u, I would study the definitions of a couple words before misusing them again so it would save me time from having to explain u the diff between for ex; retcon and reboot . Good riddance. Actually, the Presence somewhat claimed that everyone is an aspect of him: And from my knowledge, Brahma is the supreme deity of Hinduism. And he is hinted at being above most angels. Obligatoriedad formal yjusifcacin 'A menos desde a famosa dni dea stasons de Gayl cone to e canecbido como una fuer gendccs de oligaiones". So would the Presence and its creation reside within what Sources dominion ? According to the monitor fans the guy at the top of the map is fate as in Dr fate not Destiny at all who cannot go beyond the god sphere. Provide a single scan of who this would be superior incarnation is. Post #51. I don't think you read your scans. This is also from Final Crisis, a more recent comic that Gaiman's run, which puts your point of it being "corrected: into question. Not brahma, shiva, or anyone that is not called god in dc N52. I'll wait. Too bad that the conclusion is supported by nothing, but let's pretend it's the case for argument's sake. @kuuzobro this is supposed to be about how the presence is the abrahamic god, do you have any scans that prove it?? Have a nice day, buy bye. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/the-presence-dc-2268361/?page=1#js-message-25918691. DeMatteis' statement on his Twitter further supports the obvious implication he has already expressed in the comics regarding his own character ("Call it what you Will"), as opposed to your baseless claims which you still havent provide any evidence for it. Proof he doesn't or go away. Link me a a page on the DC Wiki that contains the character Destiny of the Endless being mentioned in a Multiversity of Final Crisis issue and then we can talk. NOTHING about Fate or anyone else. New Gods have absolute no relation to the Angels, or Demons, or none of The Presence's creation, yet they are said to be platonic ideas (primal and fundamental forms of the world, transcendent of reality). Think of those sea creatures on old maps. Loki est une srie tlvise amricaine cre par Michael Waldron diffuse partir du 9 juin 2021 sur la plateforme de streaming Disney+.Il s'agit de la troisime srie de l'univers cinmatographique Marvel sur cette plateforme. Like I said THOUSAND TIMES, he resides in the sphere of gods, but that does literally not mean that Destiny is limited to the sphere of gods, lol. Ur issue is ur mixing cosmology. He's also Brahma and possibly many other Gods btw. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/the-presence-dc-2268361/?page=1#js-message-25917726. The Presence is the one who created everything in DC although he himself admitted that he was created by external forces. He was using DeMatteis statements when DeMatteis doesn't even know what the Overvoid is and doesn't care about DC Cosmology. I don't even need you to the bring the evidence of this headcanon, as the same Neil Gaiman Sandman story you'are using contradicts this, unsprinsignly as I'm used to with all your claims, by establishing clearly that the words written on Destiny's first page of his book were: Quite explicit concerning the anteriority of the Presence in relation to the Dream. As for the thread itself, evidence were already provided at the beginning, and you were satisfied by those responses even though they only put forth the fact that the Presence is only a depiction of the God from the Old Testament. The Presence is the original inhabitant and creator of the universe. I would've wasted a lot more time otherwise. Then there are the guys that make those guys smaller than quarks on the grand scale of things. Here it is an unknown entity or force beyond the Monitors, multiversal creators, and is probably also where their powers originate from. Comic Vine users. The Presence appears in 82 issues. But the fact that you even said this tells me everything. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Twitter may work for u, but it does not with me. Elle est diffuse depuis le 5 mai 2022 1 aux tats-Unis sur la plateforme de vido la demande Paramount+, et en . Which is proof I was right about u the first time, ur clearly bent on something. You build an inconsistent basis for your argument and literally ask others for proof, when the burden of proof is really on you. "My view on the Presence" he said, when when it is based on misinterpretation. She lies on a highter plane of the orrey than the beings of the Sphere of Gods, but below Nil and the Overvoid. Yes, he said that Destiny's position is only metaphorical and not literal, which debunks this nonsense of Destiny being above evergthing. You're definitely persistent to always change things to suit your own liking, but it won't work. Hes not there anymore and primum mobile doesnt exist in n52, it got retcon to non-existence. Spectre said the presence was missing, and that he might learn something from the source in dc cosmology. I believe Presence and its creation reside at the Sphere of Gods (still on the realm inside the Source Wall), but as the Presence is undeniably a special kind of god, you could argue he shares the same position as Multiverse Creators such as Perpetua. I know Death of the New Gods showed Infinity Man killing Black Racer so that seems to indicate that this opinion is definitive. Issue #39CENTS In the Presence of Mine Enemies (1973) #39CENTS He isn't literslly up there. They can tap into the power of their own universe and use it as thei, The Civil War storyline is easily one of my favourite storylines due to heroes being pitted against each other and the clash of national security against personal liberties. 37. He was looking for the aspects of the Presence in the other pantheons. You keep using the statement: "Before the Creator" , not treated as "metaphorical" when it only suits you, while it's part of the same narration, lol, and without even understanding the sentence itself. The Defenders #52 - Defender of The Realm. The written part is still here, it is not there for no reason. The thing is, read the map, Destiny is not only above the Monitor Sphere but also above Limbo, Nil and the Freaking Source Wall. @au_141: Mandrakk is actually a part of a race of celestial beings called Nil Monitors, they exist in Nil, which is also on the Multiversity Map. I've read some nonsense, but you are clearly the one who stands out from the rest. Nice tap dance on your side. The author says that the position is only metaphorical and doesn't matter, so why are you still bringing it up? En 1912, Arthur Conan Doyle est un auteur clbre et il entend prouver une nouvelle fois qu'il est un auteur complet et non pas simplement le pre de Sherlock Holmes.Son nouveau roman, qui parait en feuilleton dans le Strand Magazine, s'intitule Le Monde perdu et met en scne un groupe d'explorateurs britanniques dans la rgion des Guyane, au sud du Venezuela en pleine . Post #1. are mentioned. And if the case was not already worse for you, Grant Morrison, co-creator of the Multiverse Map that lays out the blueprint for DC's cosmology, did not only mention the concept of Hypertime at the time when New 52 was the current state of DC, but as well made clear that the former Multiverse (the Orrey of Worlds) has been formed through Hypertime. Created by Erix01. Spectre said the presence was missing, and that he might learn something from the source in dc cosmology. After FC and Final Crisis there essence seems to be split as evidenced by the New Gods of Kirbyworld and the New 52 Gods. Pralaya is just a manifestation of the void. @kuuzo: Secondary source?..um no. DC did not have to transition to a complete new continuity (New 52) unrelated to the previous one (Post-Crisis) since a recton can always occur in the current already existing continuity, but this is clearly not what happened for DC following the Flashpoint event which lead to a discontinuity with: a relaunch of main titles, new origins of "all" characters, disregarding of Pre-Flashpoint events, setting up a new cosmology, and the list goes on. The second says that he is not true form. You can clearly see that the Lucifer scan I posted about the ocean of nothingness is taken from the Pralaya scan from mainstream. - Destiny of the Endless is Destiny, literally and metaphorically. So, it's actually Vertigo = DC mainstream, unless stated otherwise. The Brahma part is not true. 03:15PM Michael asked were the lines drawn to imply positions regarding Heaven and Destiny, and Hughes said he wasn't sure what Michael meant, because it was an earlier sketch that had been refinedand the position of Destiny is still in the Overvoid in that refined version. DK Vine Forum > Non-Donkey Kong Universe > Non-DKU Rare Discussion. I will go insane trying to complete an order list. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll Sons of Perpetua (The Monitors) also reside on the Sixth Dimension, but they connection to it relies on Perpetua: The artist is talking about the sketch and the official map, did you even read it correctly? Lucifer Morningstar & Gabriel Hornblower True God omnipotent or presence hahaha you are look like a funny show who is omnipotent in dc is still a question but according to me omnipotent is leviathan of stories not this fodder god or true God presence and Gabriel killed presence I said it multiple times and also Gabriel defeated Lucifer in Lucifer comic dark presence is the biggest fodder . So, indeed, there is a clear attempt to cherry-pick and misuse the word metaphor on your part, as it goes against your view on the Presence. The great darkness doesnt exist in the primum mobile lmao, the presence left it years ago. The Presence exists prior to the Collective Unconscious which in fact come from him. Frst off, the summary expresses where the Endless are housed, not where they are limited to. And even admitting that there is not distinction between both Presences for argument's sake, Pralaya and all other DC's Primal Darkness figures were defeated by the very act of Creation, associated predominantly with "the Light" in the DC Universe. So basically he is different from the Countdown and Crisis on Infinite Earth Monitors. @galaxium: I only see a scan of Lucifer talking about vertigos Brahma. fyi if were going to use retcon scans to come up with crazy theories labeling a said deity as the supreme being of DC, then i too have no problem posting coie scans that states anti-monitor destroyed concepts beyond the presences imagination. That's why what only matters is the writer involved in the storyline and who introduced all these characters. Presence never claimed everyone is an aspect of him. Tania and Sergei discovered that they did have feelings for one another, and became a couple. Flatland Pictures cabin island marriage proposal outhouse vacation gone wrong 10 more Plot summary Plot synopsis Quatre petites tortues la base trs ordinaires se perdent accidentellement dans les gouts de New York et entrent en contact avec un liquide appel mutagne. For some, it is a new lease on life. Who will win in a fight between Zeus (GreekMyth) and The Presence? The voice/yahweh/Christian god = 1 diety, ruler of the silver city. There was no fight that took place in the first place, so no supposed defeat of the Presence. The DC Universe is the Shared Universe belonging to DC Comics, established in 1934 and now the oldest major comic book publishing company. That text that you are going to try to use has NOTHING to do with there being a superior incarnation since A) Death isn't an incarnation at all, she IS Death and B). In addition to what was said previously, you show a cognitive dissonance in terms of understanding, as the statement "God's Unconscious" does not refer directly to God, but to the figure that reflects this aspect. Now I'm wondering about the nature of Lucy's creation and the position of the Imps in cosmology. The only survivor of the Council was Mamaragan, who exiled Teth, naming him Black Adam. Another attempt to deform Grant Morrison works and view to fit your headcanon, still a failure. Hence this is the reason why even the Creator is considered an aspect of the Presence by DeMatteis in a secondary source when questionned on this same storyline revolving around Pralaya. You can bring all your headcanon with you after getting a second mental breakdown by reading this post, debunking the rest of your attempts. Also, does anyone know the context behind this? https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/the-presence-dc-2268361/?page=1#js-message-25926738. @au_141: There the same, The presence=The source=The voice but the other questions require intensive study. You used a scan of Michael demiurgos when he was enslaved by sandalphon imprison for millions millions years to say he was a creator operating on the same scale as other creatorsyea gtfo lol. She is below Yggdrasil, not the presence. To argue that somehow the Endless are limited to the SOTG is to argue that beings in the orrerry are limited to that as well, which is completely false. So "metaphorical " that even the writter DeMatteis, in a secondary source, asserted that Pralaya is an aspect of God , indeed. It's not just Yahweh. The middle of three brothers, Dennis was rebellious and argumentative; he often acknowledged that he was the Wilsons' "black sheep." He joined America's band, The Beach Boys, when his mother pushed his brothers to let him play with them, although at first he . A retcon erases the memory of whatever so no one in a retcon world will remember or notice the change. Pralaya called herself the unconscious of God. Today is no exception. Exactly, so what are you even debating here. That's just more fuel to the fire. Me, Rijehu, Etriel and Sungsam have adressed that thousand times. 138 Date: August 1963 Format: 14-page main feature. Monitors who are external to the sphere, exist regardless of the seven fundamental energies being present or not. To go along with my other list, I present to you a collection of characters who predate the New 52 and appear within it. I am talking sbout Current Canon here, I am using the facts. So really, weve never seen the real Presence. Paras/Parasect Appreciator: So, Rare is having a panel called "A Rare Chit Chat: Past and Future" at San Diego Comic-Con. Likewise, where would Perpertua be on the map? In fact, there are NO versions of this map in which he isn't beyond the multiverse. Feel free to tag those that you like to see discuss this. Notable Traits/Accomplishments: . You wont fool anybody Ditto wannabe. The Endless are listed in the Sphere of Gods, the author confirmed he is only metaphorrically and not literally on the top. You can decipher from these scans that Brahma is an aspect of the Presence just like Yahweh: And the statement about the Presence. ucifer's creation is relative to the Orrery? Omnipresence: Being everywhere and nowhere in existence at once. So if u affect the collective unconscious, u also affect the presence. I am thinking that if the Endless are indeed limited to the Sphere of Gods, simply proving that the Imps can die would place them in the Sphere of Gods. Still not an evidence of the Presence being defeated. He was woaved in the dreaming And anti-monitor killed concepts presence never even dreamed of. The pralaya scan was obviously not referencing him, nor the retcon Hindu Gods u implied into the picture to suit ur own narrative with a tweet from twitter. The Sphere of Gods is beyond the regular DC Multiverse, nohing you have said so far presents any proof she is beyond the DC Multiverse. So I ask you again, who is in the OM? Marvel is also not within the Multiverse and Death has claied universes and creation beyond DC in the void. Not sure what feat you are talking about thought. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll All the other Monitor type beings are untethered by any form of creation which is the height of Destiny's influence. puts her well beyond anything in any comicverse. Using the term "baseless" for something that can be found in primary, secondary, etc. So, in actuality ur description of me in ur prev posts poor understanding , baseless claims , mental breakdowns is actually describing urself. Mobius killing concepts beyond Yahwehs imagination(omniscience) further strengthens my stance there are cosmologies in DC comics beyond presences operations. Unrelated to angels. According to Comic Vine, this is the costume he wore after being resurrected as Adam in order to defeat Thanos and protect half of all life in the universe from being blinked out of existence by . KillerZ We have definitly hit the bottom by explaining something that is common sense, but I think we'll dig even deeper. 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